I am posting this in hopes of stimulating more people to have conversations about the candidates. Use your horse-sense and discuss facts that you have learned YOURSELF. Things that you hear are not facts until you can verify them. Most of the stuff we are bombarded with is either opinion or a "selective" stating of the facts crafted to slant an issue.
Below is a conversation I saw happen between two people.
I am going to spend some time modifying the post to insert links that site support for any actual facts that are stated below. If you have supporting information that could be used, please comment and I will consider updating the post.
(1:56:49 PM) Person One: yo
(1:57:24 PM) Person One: I have a present for you.
(2:03:01 PM) Person One: http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/palin.asp
(2:04:34 PM) Person Two: the repubs soooooo wish she was that cool!
(2:04:43 PM) Person One: hehe
(2:05:07 PM) Person Two: seriously, could they be more desperate???? have you been watching??? what dinos!
(2:05:18 PM) Person Two: the world has just passed them by
(2:05:57 PM) Person One: you mean passed by the dems?
(2:06:02 PM) Person One: obama is old now
(2:06:15 PM) Person Two: c'mon man..... you know that spin aint working
(2:06:24 PM) Person One: no air left in the balloon
(2:06:32 PM) Person Two: dude, he so rocks
(2:06:55 PM) Person One: he is a great speaker, no doubt, cultural icon
(2:07:00 PM) Person Two: ok, so, forget the taxes for a moment
(2:07:07 PM) Person Two: wouldn't you rather have someone like him?????
(2:07:09 PM) Person One: motivational
(2:07:17 PM) Person One: as an icon, sure
(2:07:17 PM) Person Two: hell the whole world loves him!
(2:07:31 PM) Person Two: other countries are soooo cheering him on
(2:07:42 PM) Person One: i wouldn't mind him being elected actually
(2:07:46 PM) Person Two: they will finally welcome their old friend the US back
(2:08:01 PM) Person One: they're cheering so the dollar will continue to crap
(2:08:05 PM) Person Two: Bush has just killed us in matters of world opinion
(2:10:40 PM) Person Two: dude, c'mon, you are way to cool to be a republican
(2:10:58 PM) Person Two: what about the wife???? surely she is on the good side?
(2:11:17 PM) Person One: yea, nobody likes bush. mcain is in a tough spot - can't point out that he didn't get along with him in 2000 but can't show support
(2:11:53 PM) Person Two: mcain...... i can't believe that's the best they can do
(2:12:13 PM) Person Two: I mean fred thompson scared me a little... at least he is still alive... but mcain????
(2:13:00 PM) Person Two: we can't have someone who has been dead for over a decade be the leader of our nation???
(2:14:31 PM) Person One: heh
(2:14:37 PM) Person One: he IS old.
(2:14:53 PM) Person Two: dude, his old lady seriously looks dead
(2:15:14 PM) Person Two: she looks like something from the haunted house at Six Flags
(2:16:06 PM) Person One: You mean that you can vote for someone based on their apperance? :)
(2:16:21 PM) Person One: I think that's why we like obama
(2:16:40 PM) Person Two: oh hell no dude, i'm such a yellow dog.... always have been
(2:17:04 PM) Person Two: but
(2:17:09 PM) Person One: We all want obama to win so the USA can prove that we're not a racist country
(2:17:13 PM) Person Two: i do like energy
(2:17:32 PM) Person Two: and i think a "good face" is very underestimated
(2:18:03 PM) Person One: Dick Morris claims the ONLY thing a prez needs is to be able to give a good speech
(2:18:10 PM) Person Two: think about it
(2:18:13 PM) Person One: and he was Clinton's advisor
(2:18:30 PM) Person Two: i mean, do you really think that the pres is the one pulling the important levers?
(2:18:37 PM) Person Two: methinks no
(2:18:44 PM) Person One: watch The Company
(2:19:01 PM) Person Two: you need a good face with a good and righteous aim
(2:20:30 PM) Person Two: who do you think gives more of a shit about you and me?
(2:20:38 PM) Person Two: the dems or the repubs? honestly?
(2:21:00 PM) Person One: Palin
(2:21:03 PM) Person One: honestly
(2:21:20 PM) Person One: not mcain, obama, definitely not biden
(2:21:42 PM) Person One: all 3 are career politicians
(2:21:49 PM) Person One: in it for themselves
(2:21:54 PM) Person Two: not a bad answer..... but i seriously think obama gives more of a shit about the real folks... .or at least the dems
(2:22:08 PM) Person One: I don't, here's why:
(2:22:18 PM) Person Two: don't say taxes!
(2:23:36 PM) Person One: Every time he is asked about his PERSONAL opinions, he tap dances. He tap dances because he is concerned about who will mis-interpret his answer, who he will offend. This is how you can spot a career politician.
(2:23:39 PM) Person One: Examples:
(2:24:54 PM) Person One: He sates that "the military option will always be on the table" when it comes to the topic of IRAN, but when asked about if he will prepare a military plan - one that will only be used after all other options have been exhausted to his liking - he will say neither yes or no.
(2:24:59 PM) Person One: Another:
(2:25:35 PM) Person Two: he's running for office for chrissakes!
(2:25:51 PM) Person One: The abortion issue:
abortion will never be resolved, but when asked about his opinion on life, he punts and doesn't answer. He has to have a personal opinion but he can't state it.
(2:26:02 PM) Person One: I agree, he's running for office
(2:26:12 PM) Person One: mcain and biden are the same
(2:26:15 PM) Person Two: i mean i coould dig around for the same shit on mcain
(2:26:23 PM) Person One: I agree
(2:26:37 PM) Person One: Palin is most genuinely in it to make things better
(2:26:45 PM) Person Two: oh my gosh
(2:27:08 PM) Person Two: dude, she had NO frickin' idea she would be where she is about a month ago!
(2:28:39 PM) Person One: even better! Criticism or not, she joined the PTA to make her kids school better, became mayor because she saw things in the PTA that she could only address as mayor, and the same for governor. She ran for those offices because she wanted to fix things and could only do it if holding office.
The other three want to fix things because that's what you have to do when you are elected.
(2:29:47 PM) Person One: When she was mayor, they wanted to boot her out.
(2:30:33 PM) Person Two: I agree, she is TOTALLY unqualified.... good point
(2:30:37 PM) Person One: because she was on a mission
(2:31:20 PM) Person One: they wanted to boot her out because the Police chief wouldn't fire a trooper that tazered his wife. It pissed her off so she fired the chief.
(2:31:29 PM) Person One: "The establishment" didn't like it
(2:32:00 PM) Person Two: yeah, i definitely see a "knee jerk" mentality in her persona... .not a good thing
(2:32:23 PM) Person One: She's perfectly qualified, especially from a democrat's point of view. She will be on a mission to ACTUALLY change Washington
(2:32:34 PM) Person One: I think she'll cause mcain problems
(2:32:38 PM) Person Two: i hope so
(2:32:55 PM) Person One: Obama is a talking head for Pelosi and Reed
(2:33:08 PM) Person Two: Fine with me
(2:33:08 PM) Person One: granted, a brilliant, perfect one
(2:33:55 PM) Person Two: dude, we (the US) can't have much more of such a low world opinion
(2:33:58 PM) Person One: so when he gets to Washington, will he follow through on what he promises? Only if the Dem Establishment wants it - he owes them. Look at Leiberman
(2:34:04 PM) Person Two: mcain would kill us there
(2:34:13 PM) Person One: I don't think so
(2:34:22 PM) Person Two: c'mon
(2:34:40 PM) Person One: Our world opinion concern is about being a police state
(2:34:45 PM) Person One: and a valid one
(2:34:54 PM) Person Two: or a simpleton
(2:35:04 PM) Person Two: stoopid redneck (bush)
(2:35:11 PM) Person One: But Obama claims he'll attack russia in georgia or attack iran
(2:35:36 PM) Person Two: he as stipulations that would lead to that
(2:35:44 PM) Person One: how?
(2:36:02 PM) Person Two: he has things that would lead to that possibility
(2:36:03 PM) Person One: mcain and bush were oil and water in the 2000 campaign
(2:36:12 PM) Person One: like a temper?
(2:36:17 PM) Person Two: he doesn't just claim if elected he is going to invade iran!
(2:36:40 PM) Person One: nobody has said that we WILL invade iran
(2:36:50 PM) Person Two: right
(2:36:55 PM) Person One: we will take military action if the build a nuclear plant
(2:37:11 PM) Person One: honestly if you look at history, we won't do it. Israel will
(2:37:25 PM) Person Two: sorry, i can't form a valkid opinion on that... just don't know enough
(2:37:34 PM) Person One: Did you know Sadam built a nuclear plant in the 80's?
(2:38:02 PM) Person One: Well, France built it and saddam bought it.
(2:38:15 PM) Person One: The US wouldn't intervene because of world opinion
(2:38:33 PM) Person One: So Israel blew it up in france before it shipped to iraq
(2:38:49 PM) Person Two: that i surely did not know
(2:38:53 PM) Person One: Saddam then paid to repair it and began assembling it
(2:39:14 PM) Person Two: didn't we like saddam then?
(2:40:21 PM) Person One: We liked saddam because of what was going on in iran. That is when sha was overturned and the US embassy invaded. remember the prisoners during carter's administration?
(2:40:35 PM) Person Two: that's what i was thinking
(2:41:24 PM) Person One: Once saddam had his nuclear plant almost up, israel sent 3 planes on a suicide mission to bomb it. Suicide because they were sure they would not have enough fuel to return
(2:41:28 PM) Person One: They blew it up
(2:41:37 PM) Person One: today, iraq has no nukes
(2:41:47 PM) Person Two: that's good shit...
(2:41:57 PM) Person Two: you sure that wasn't from a tom clancy novel though????
(2:42:08 PM) Person One: google it
(2:42:15 PM) Person One: it is flippin real
(2:42:36 PM) Person One: so not if, WHEN, iran has their plant - the question is what do we do?
(2:42:51 PM) Person Two: i honestly have no idea
(2:43:24 PM) Person Two: maybe we could create a "scatter" bomb that would only kill the bad iranians and not the women and childrens?
(2:43:35 PM) Person One: yea. If we do nothing, iran sends a nuke to Hezbolla who sneaks it across our swiss cheese borders, and buh-bye
(2:43:50 PM) Person One: This nearly happed with russia
(2:44:12 PM) Person One: During the cold war, russia had nukes on passenger trains around the US
(2:44:13 PM) Person Two: Obama would never let this happen ;)
(2:44:37 PM) Person One: it was averted with the CIA/JFK
(2:45:25 PM) Person Two: the question is... what would Elvis have done if elected?
(2:46:15 PM) Person One: So, world opinion - do we worry about the world's OPINION of us as a police state and do nothing only to see a mushroom cloud instead of the sunrise one day, or do we act like we care about the country's well being more than our image?
(2:46:37 PM) Person Two: we need the world to like us.... period
(2:46:49 PM) Person Two: it makes all our lofty goals more attainable
(2:47:05 PM) Person One: I have a parallel that is more down-home
(2:47:12 PM) Person Two: we had them eating out of our hands after 9/11
(2:47:20 PM) Person One: Company I worked for was barely making payroll every 2 weeks
(2:47:21 PM) Person Two: but Bush the redneck ruined it
(2:47:27 PM) Person Two: yikes
(2:47:43 PM) Person One: we were on the brink of closing
(2:47:55 PM) Person Two: damn dude, you seriously need to vote democrat
(2:47:59 PM) Person One: we had some software packages that are unsupported and out of date
(2:48:13 PM) Person One: engineer wanted to spend $100k to upgrade them
(2:48:31 PM) Person One: when told him we couldn't do it, he's pissed, angry (like the dems)
(2:48:58 PM) Person One: he said "what kind of company is this that doesn't take care of employees, of it's systems!"
(2:49:12 PM) Person Two: that's a stretch to compare that the to dems
(2:49:30 PM) Person Two: what are u going to do?
(2:49:54 PM) Person One: no, dems are angry becuase "what kind of country is this..."
(2:50:10 PM) Person One: So if our company decides to spend cash on this guy's stuff
(2:50:13 PM) Person One: we don't make payroll
(2:50:18 PM) Person One: HE doesn't get paid
(2:50:27 PM) Person One: then, he'll complain about that
(2:50:31 PM) Person Two: yall need to create a big ol fat deficit then!
(2:50:35 PM) Person One: he doesn't see the bigger picture
(2:50:49 PM) Person One: the company HAS to survive
(2:50:57 PM) Person One: The company has to come FIRST
(2:50:58 PM) Person Two: can't you just make a deficit???
(2:51:03 PM) Person One: nope
(2:51:08 PM) Person Two: HA
(2:51:10 PM) Person Two: gotcha
(2:51:23 PM) Person One: once the company is health, THEN we spend niceties for people
(2:51:34 PM) Person One: so let's say we start doing better
(2:51:42 PM) Person One: we're not so cash-strapped
(2:51:47 PM) Person One: Obama gets elected
(2:51:57 PM) Person Two: <-- crossing fingers (2:52:01 PM) Person One: MORE TAXES ON BUSINESSES - that's what he says. (2:52:20 PM) Person One: Now my company is paying more. Guess what engineer won't get a raise next year?
(2:52:36 PM) Person One: Why? because the company is mean?
(2:52:49 PM) Person One: no, because it is not feasible.
(2:52:51 PM) Person Two: he just might if he doesn't have to pay for healthcare insurance?
(2:53:27 PM) Person One: How will that health insurance be paid for?
(2:53:35 PM) Person One: taxes on business or on capital gains
(2:53:46 PM) Person One: my company wants someone to invest in it - give us cash
(2:54:00 PM) Person One: won't be as easy because obama is going to tax that stuff
(2:54:06 PM) Person One: investors will be more picky
(2:54:28 PM) Person Two: i still say that is better than taxing the middle class, like we do now
(2:54:31 PM) Person One: taxes on business to make the healthcare system = less payroll for people
(2:54:44 PM) Person One: what IS right is the flat tax
(2:55:17 PM) Person One: So obama is telling people he isn't going to tax them - he's technically right
(2:55:29 PM) Person One: what he can't say is that it won't impact them
(2:55:31 PM) Person One: it will
(2:55:44 PM) Person One: they will have less $$
(2:56:08 PM) Person One: the fundamental philosophy is that Obama can spend your money better than you can
(2:56:49 PM) Person Two: i'm no good arguing these areas
(2:57:02 PM) Person One: no obama supporter is :)
(2:57:03 PM) Person Two: fiscal policy aint my thing
(2:57:19 PM) Person One: that's why he has to be motivational - to make you feel better
(2:57:22 PM) Person One: ;)
(2:57:29 PM) Person Two: it works!
(2:57:36 PM) Person Two: unlike the Republs
(2:57:40 PM) Person One: mmmmmm, all warm and fuzzy. Chills up my leg
(2:58:02 PM) Person Two: what do they have to convince me that they are more capable to make fiscal decisions???
(2:58:20 PM) Person Two: seriously, they have shown me nothing to tell me there ideas are better
(2:58:49 PM) Person One: republican, schmublican. If the dems start being conservative, seriously want to protect the country, empower people to make thier own ends meet, I'll vote dem
(2:59:03 PM) Person Two: in fact, when i look at the deficit pre and post bush, i have to think they are as capable as me in matters of fiscal policy
(2:59:21 PM) Person One: what did the democratic congress promise?
(2:59:29 PM) Person Two: "protect the country".... so lame
(2:59:35 PM) Person Two: they really should let that one go
(2:59:45 PM) Person One: Lame? Iran is building and nuclear site
(2:59:50 PM) Person Two: it's all they got.... fear mongering
(2:59:52 PM) Person One: so is north korea
(3:00:05 PM) Person Two: and obama said he would attack it, doesn't that make you happy?
(3:00:31 PM) Person One: no, he didn't say that. He said that " the military option was on the table"
(3:00:35 PM) Person One: that is ALL he will say
(3:00:52 PM) Person Two: how can you argue with that???
(3:01:14 PM) Person Two: that's a level headed approach
(3:01:24 PM) Person One: ...but he won't state that he would create a plan?
(3:01:40 PM) Person One: he would wait for everything to fail and THEN form a plan?
(3:01:40 PM) Person Two: I guess Palin would just go over and "whooop dat ass!"
(3:01:55 PM) Person One: mcain = foreign policy
(3:02:04 PM) Person One: palin = clean up corrupt washington
(3:02:15 PM) Person Two: lame
(3:02:26 PM) Person One: obama = good speaker, make us feel good, better world opinion
(3:02:27 PM) Person Two: they are bush repeat
(3:02:30 PM) Person One: biden = ???
(3:02:37 PM) Person Two: i love biden
(3:02:40 PM) Person One: mcain isn't even close to bush
(3:02:47 PM) Person One: in what way is mcain like bush?
(3:02:53 PM) Person Two: yeah, but his party sure as hell is
(3:02:57 PM) Person One: and what has bush done wrong?
(3:03:07 PM) Person Two: and all the homophobic repubs want the same ol shit
(3:03:12 PM) Person One: mcain's party doesn't like him!
(3:03:32 PM) Person Two: bush? he pissed of the ENTIRE FRICKIN WORLD
(3:03:36 PM) Person One: by?
(3:03:48 PM) Person Two: he let our economy go totally stagnate
(3:03:52 PM) Person One: how?
(3:04:04 PM) Person Two: he increased the deficit to a point where we might never recovewr
(3:04:12 PM) Person One: because of the war?
(3:04:25 PM) Person Two: OH YEAH AND THAT STOOOOPID WAR
(3:04:33 PM) Person One: or because the banks gave loans to people that couldn't afford them?
(3:04:52 PM) Person One: that war that the dems in congress voted against?
(3:05:12 PM) Person Two: yeah, and i think we should tax the *^#$ outta those silly mortgage companies
(3:05:15 PM) Person One: that war that 15+ nations also supported?
(3:05:27 PM) Person One: that congress voted for?
(3:05:35 PM) Person Two: last i saw only spain and GB supported it
(3:05:37 PM) Person One: the president can't send the country to war
(3:05:47 PM) Person One: congress votes to send us to war
(3:06:01 PM) Person One: The pres i guess could veto
(3:06:07 PM) Person One: but that never happend
(3:06:22 PM) Person Two: he sure can't run the war....
(3:06:33 PM) Person Two: and YES, the PRESIDENT DOES DO THAT
(3:06:33 PM) Person One: not run, send
(3:06:52 PM) Person One: and how many congress people supported him?
(3:07:30 PM) Person One: Congress had access to all the info that the president had
(3:07:35 PM) Person One: read all the same stuff
(3:07:40 PM) Person One: and made the same decision
(3:07:51 PM) Person Two: he ramped us up for that war
(3:07:54 PM) Person Two: and you know it
(3:08:04 PM) Person One: what does ramped mean?
(3:08:13 PM) Person Two: congress is very unlikely to go against a president who wants to go to war
(3:08:16 PM) Person One: congress voted to send the troops
(3:08:23 PM) Person Two: see above
(3:08:34 PM) Person Two: not obama ;)
(3:08:49 PM) Person One: so congressmen don't vote the way their district would?
(3:08:57 PM) Person One: we need palin to fix that then
(3:09:17 PM) Person Two: we need palin to fix our PTA's
(3:09:30 PM) Person One: the recently elected congress won on one thing - to remove the troops in 6 months
(3:09:35 PM) Person One: and where are we?
(3:09:45 PM) Person One: nada
(3:09:48 PM) Person One: no progress
(3:09:51 PM) Person Two: we need palin to do a table dance for us..... but please, please leave the glasses on
(3:10:23 PM) Person One: Remember pelosi making those statement about the first 180 days - how much she would get done?
(3:10:24 PM) Person Two: the repubs said the other night that "the tide has turned in Iraq"
(3:10:31 PM) Person One: she hasn't done crap, nothing
(3:10:50 PM) Person One: The tide has turned in iraq, obama stated that last night
(3:11:01 PM) Person One: unless he is wrong or lying
(3:11:03 PM) Person Two: so did the repubs at the convention
(3:11:10 PM) Person One: so they agree
(3:11:14 PM) Person Two: so, good maybe it has
(3:11:27 PM) Person One: what has pelosi done?
(3:11:33 PM) Person One: zip
(3:11:47 PM) Person One: who does obama responsible to? Pelosi
(3:11:57 PM) Person One: what's going to get done if he's elected? zip
(3:11:58 PM) Person Two: she's waiting to get a dem in the oval office
(3:12:03 PM) Person Two: then we will see things move
(3:12:12 PM) Person One: she has COMPLETE control over congress
(3:12:24 PM) Person One: they haven't even passed anything
(3:12:35 PM) Person One: troops out in 6 months? hah
(3:12:51 PM) Person One: the funny thing is dems are not holding her accountable
(3:12:59 PM) Person One: they're distracted by obama
(3:32:30 PM) Person One: peace out...
(3:32:41 PM) Person Two: have a great weekend dude, howdy to the wife!
(3:32:46 PM) Person One: cheers
Friday, September 05, 2008
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